Enjoying freedom

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Posts by Enjoying freedom

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  23

  BBC Radio 5 Live recording and transcript

  by IT Support in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  thanks for your call, peter.

  should a doctor be able to override a patients wishes?.

  lets take just one more call before we let you go.

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  Enjoying freedom

  Wednesday, 14 June, 2000, 15:00 GMT 16:00 UK Jehovah's Witnesses drop transfusion ban Transfusions will no longer lead to expulsion By the BBC's Religious Affairs Correspondent Jane Little Leaders of the Jehovah's Witnesses movement have revoked a strict ruling that their members automatically face ex-communication if they accept blood transfusions. Jehovah's Witnesses: facts An unorthodox Christian sect Based in New York 6m members in more than 200 countries Founded in 1884 They took the controversial decision at a secret meeting in New York, following years of recrimination from ex-members and non-Jehovah's Witnesses over the ban. The religious community insists that receiving blood is still wrong. But under the changes, transfusions have been relegated to "non-disfellowshipping events" - in other words you will not be thrown out of the religion if you have one. That may come as cold comfort to many who have watched loved ones die because they refused blood. Only last week, a British Jehovah's Witness who lost pints of blood in a machete attack, renounced his faith at the last minute so that he could have the transfusion which saved his life. Climbdown or procedural change? But if this looks like a major climbdown, a spokesman for the organisation - also called Watch Tower - insisted it was merely a procedural change. He said not taking blood remains a biblical injunction and a core tenet of the faith. If a member has a transfusion, they will, by their actions disassociate themselves from the religion. The ruling emphasises personal choice, he said. He added that if they repented afterwards, they would be offered spiritual comfort and the possibility of redemption. But the distinction between what in other words amounts to resigning rather than being sacked, does seem to be a major shift. Jehovah's Witnesses, who number six million worldwide, have suffered years of adverse publicity over blood transfusions. It now looks like they quietly want to downplay this issue and to emphasise less controversial elements of the faith.

  </form> Search BBC News Online Advanced search options BBC RADIO NEWS BBC ONE TV NEWS WORLD NEWS SUMMARY BBC NEWS 24 BULLETIN PROGRAMMES GUIDE See also: 09 Mar 99 | Health Jehovah's Witnesses 'must be allowed to die' 09 Feb 99 | Europe Moscow seeks ban on Jehovah's Witnesses 13 May 99 | Health Liver transplant for Jehovah's witness 20 Mar 00 | Europe Italy recognises Buddhists and Jehovah's Witnesses 13 Mar 00 | Health Jehovah's couple in bloodless transplant Internet links: British Organ Donor Society British Transplantation Society The Lancet Watch Tower The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites Top World stories now: Crash pilots given conflicting orders Mass resignations rock Turkey WorldCom chiefs refuse to testify Israel reopens talks with Palestinians New hope for Aids vaccine

  END OF BBC NEWS STORY

  Just for everyone's information regarding the change from it being a disfellowshipping "offence" to a disassociation "offence"!!!!

  Enjoying freedom
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  15

  Are Jehovah's Witnesses embarrassing 'Jehovah'?

  by Gill in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scandal upon scandal has recently been heaped upon the members of the watchtower bible society!.

  eunice spry, infamous child abuser hit the headlines last year.. then the jw pedophile who escpaed jail despite abusing many children including a baby.. this week we discover the disturbing loss of a jw mother who haemorraged in childbirth and refused a potentially life saving blood transfusion.. i'm sure there are many more case you can think of.. do you think jehovah is pleased with the people that are supposedly a people for his name.

  or do you think he's a tad embarrassed at the bad and foolish behaviour?.

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  Enjoying freedom

  If god exists and he has the power to sort out problems, then he ought by now to have nuked those crazy idiots at the top level of WTBTS who have been using "his" name widely to no good effect for the last 100 years.

  Or sat them down and said to them clearly and succinctly what it is they are supposed to believe and give them a permanent set of guidelines that will not require "new light" 10 years down the line.

  He would also realise that the publication of all these magazines is not good for the environment, and that knocking on doors really doesn't help.

  He would use the internet as the means of getting the "truth" to people - perhaps by means of an online forum where people from all over the world can discuss and share their ideas in a calm and friendly way??!!........................

  Enjoying freedom
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  41

  The Independent (UK) prints my letter today.

  by nicolaou in

  1. social
  2. current
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  Enjoying freedom

  Excellent! Nice work!
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  23

  BBC Radio 5 Live recording and transcript

  by IT Support in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  thanks for your call, peter.

  should a doctor be able to override a patients wishes?.

  lets take just one more call before we let you go.

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  Enjoying freedom

  I would love to see Ernie go head to head in a verbal battle of wits with Jeremy Paxman! I think we would all know the outcome of that!

  The side stepping issue regarding "not being disfellowshipped for accepting a blood transfusion", probably stems from the case that went to the European Court of Human Rights in 2000 (approx). Bulgaria would only accept JWs as a religion if the JW religion agreed not to disfellowship JWs who accepted a blood transfusion. The JW reps agreed to this in court. Then there was a swift change in JW policy so that wef from June 2001 if a JW accepted a blood transfusion on behalf of himself or his family it would be taken as an automatic disassociation on his part.

  I did have a copy of the judgment, but can't put my hands on it right now...

  We all know however that the outcome of disassociation or disfellowshipping is identical, ie shunning. But the JW religion would not be taking the action to disfellowship the individual, the action of disassociation would be taken by the JW who accepted the blood transfusion.

  You can just feel the warmth and christian kindness eminating from the JW religion can't you?? Liars and hypocrites!

  Enjoying freedom
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  211

  Christmas Card exchange?

  by bem in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has someone started a christmas card exchange list yet for this year?

  we did this in the past and it was such fun to get all the great cards.. .

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  Enjoying freedom

  I'm in!

  Bem - Have just sent you a PM

  Happy Christmas everyone!

  Enjoying Freedom
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  7

  Shocking info I am adding to announce my dissasociation to fellow jdubs

  by What-A-Coincidence in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007may10/0,4670,jehovahaposswitnessessexabuse,00.html.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccpcxtjzxymhttp://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/ http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/pdfs/watchtower.pdf

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  Enjoying freedom

  The DPI said they are going to "disassociate" the WTBTS - does that mean that members of the DPI are now no longer able to socialise with or talk to members of the WTBTS?

  Is the DPI SHUNNING the WTBTS??!!!

  The thought just made me giggle - the WTBTS getting a taste of their own medicine!!!
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  8

  Seminar - Forced Transfusion of Children of Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  event title:forced transfusion of children of jehovah's witnessesevent date:october 25, 2007event time:12:00 pm - 12:50 pmevent location:gray seminar room in lurie.

  mapevent description:this lecture will discuss the ethical dilemmas that arise when the children of jehovah's witnesses require blood transfusions.

  when, if ever, is it right to act against the family's wishes in the interest of the child's health?web page:http://bioethics.northwestern.edu/lectures/contact info:bryan morrison (phone: 312-503-1927)group:medical humanities and bioethics program

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  Enjoying freedom

  Nicolau - that sounds promising!

  It could be argued that the child's right to life (Article 2 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms) overrides the parents rights to freedom of thought, conscience and religion (Article 9 of the European Convention etc etc).

  Article 2 is an absolute right and will override Article 9 which is not an absolute right.

  Therefore the parents are entitled to their own religious beliefs, but if the life of the child is at stake then their right to religious beliefs must, in law, take second place.

  What is unclear however is what the unborn child's right to life is under legislation (I am not talking about an ethical debate here, merely what the law says and will allow).

  In H v Norway (1990) app no 1700/90 the Commission said that each State had a wide discretion to decide what age an unborn child could be lawfully aborted. This may be different where the child is capable of a viable existence once delivered because the Commission stated that it would not exclude that in certain circumstances an unborn child may enjoy protection under Article 2.

  So you would have to (a) make a case to prove that the unborn child has the right to life under Article 2 and (b) then make the case stating that the Article 2 rights of the unborn child will override the Article 9 rights of the parents to religious beliefs.

  Enjoying freedom
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  8

  Seminar - Forced Transfusion of Children of Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  event title:forced transfusion of children of jehovah's witnessesevent date:october 25, 2007event time:12:00 pm - 12:50 pmevent location:gray seminar room in lurie.

  mapevent description:this lecture will discuss the ethical dilemmas that arise when the children of jehovah's witnesses require blood transfusions.

  when, if ever, is it right to act against the family's wishes in the interest of the child's health?web page:http://bioethics.northwestern.edu/lectures/contact info:bryan morrison (phone: 312-503-1927)group:medical humanities and bioethics program

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  Enjoying freedom

  Anglise - I agree!

  I wonder if it could be argued that a JW parent who refuses life saving treatment for their child is guilty of child abuse?? Could the longer term custody of that child be under consideration?? I wonder what the NSPCC would think of the situation??
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  8

  Seminar - Forced Transfusion of Children of Jehovah's Witnesses

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  event title:forced transfusion of children of jehovah's witnessesevent date:october 25, 2007event time:12:00 pm - 12:50 pmevent location:gray seminar room in lurie.

  mapevent description:this lecture will discuss the ethical dilemmas that arise when the children of jehovah's witnesses require blood transfusions.

  when, if ever, is it right to act against the family's wishes in the interest of the child's health?web page:http://bioethics.northwestern.edu/lectures/contact info:bryan morrison (phone: 312-503-1927)group:medical humanities and bioethics program

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  Enjoying freedom

  Medical treatment should only be proposed for a child of any age (ie a person under the age of 18) if the treatment is considered to be in the child's best interests. Case law has established that the patient's best interests are not limited to best medical interests (Re: MB (Medical Treatmenht)[1997] 2 FLR 426) but also encompass "medical, emotional and all other welfare issues" (Butler-Sloss in Re A (Male Sterilisation)[2000] 1 FLR 549.

  However in Re: S (A Minor) Medical Treatment) [1983] 1 FLR 376 the judge held that "the court, exercising its prerogative of protection should be very slow to allow an infant to martyr himself".

  In Re: L (Medical Treatment: Gillick Competency) [1998] 2 FLR 811 a 14 year old child had not been given information about the distressing nature of her inevitable deaht if she did not have a blood transfusion. The judge found at 813 that the failure to provide the information was material to his finding gthat she was not Gillick competrent because "it is quite clear that she has not been able to be given all the details which it would be right and appropriate to have in mind when making such a decision".

  Equally pertinent is the case of Re T (Adult: Refusal of Medical Treatment) [1992] 4 All ER 649 where Lord Donaldson said "The real question in each case is, Does the patient really mean that he says or is he merely saying it for a quiet life, to satisfy someone else or because the advice and persuasion to which he has been subjected is such that he can no longer think and decide for himself? In other words, Is it a decision in form only, not in reality?". He went on to say that when considering the effect of outside influences, two aspects can be of crucial importance. They are the strength of will of the patient and the relationship of the "persuader" to the patient. With regard to the latter, his Lorship said that the "influence of parents on their children...can be, but is by no means necessarilyi, much stronger than would be the case in other relationships".

  If the doctor proposing treatment considers the child has been subject to undue pressure by another person (be it friends, family, elders, Hospital Liaison Committee etc), then the decision of the child is not valid. Emergency treatment to prevent death or a serious deterioration can be given if the care team consider it in the best interests of the child, however if there is sufficient time a court order should be sought before treatment commences.

  For further detailed information I would strongly recommend that the reader refers to "The Mental Health Act Manual" by Richard Jones, 9th edition, published by Sweet and Maxwell. There is a whole section in the back of the book relating to the common law and the law relating to medical treatment of children.

  It is time that children are protected from the dangerous decisions made by their parents who are under the influence of a life destroying cult that cares nothing for human kindness and wellbeing.

  Enjoying freedom
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  31

  Help - running out of "excuses" for not attending meetings

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my situation as some of you know, i'm married and my wife is a jw and still wants to go to meetings.

  i on the other hand do not.. over the last few years, i have suffered with poor health and i also studied, so when i was studying i would say "i'm at college/doing homework/taking exams" which for the most part was true.. i also have ill health, suffer with chronic chest infections for part of the year.. trouble is, people at the hall are having a hard time buying my excuses, or if my wife tells them the reason i'm not there, they now start giving her the eyeroll, or they say to her "well, you're here and so am i.".

  not one of the elders calls to see where i am, what they can do.

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  Enjoying freedom

  I told my husband at a circuit assembly (outside in the corrider during a talk!!) that I was never ever coming to another meeting again.

  I have never been to another meeting.

  Two elders called round to see me - I told them that if living forever in Paradise meant being stuck til the end of time with people like them then I would rather not bother.

  They haven't called again.

  That was 7 years ago. My husband now hardly goes to any meetings.

  You have to be strong and stick to your guns, whilst at all times being polite and friendly to any approaches, or shunning, made by JWs (although inside you may want to inflict serious physical pain on some of the mindless JW idiots!).

  Someone somewhere in each family has to be the one to start the ball rolling on the road to freedom from the religion.

  Keep us posted on your progress!